Wednesday, July 18, 2012

On Why We Should Not Condemn Rule 34, Pony Porn, and Cloppers (But We Should Condemn Horsef***ers)

Dangerous Idea #1: Cloppers are a legitimate part of the My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic fandom, commonly known as bronies, and they have every right to continue to do what they do.

A couple of days ago, I watched a video on Howard Stern talking about bronies and commenting on interviews that he collected at BronyCon. To sum up the content, he basically goes on a rant about how all bronies are turned on by the ponies in the show and insults them in various ways, at one point saying "You know how Comic-Con is sort of for losers? Comic-Con people are winners, compared to BronyCon." Throughout all of this, he plays some interviews of guests at BronyCon with obviously leading questions to try to get them to admit to clopping (masturbating to pornography featuring the animated ponies from the show) or other potentially embarrassing or stereotypically "loser" situations, like living at home or not having a job.

But putting Howard Stern's intentions to exploit and demonize the brony community aside, we need more bronies like these interviewed. All we hear are happy-go-lucky bronies who mix well with the fandom and lead rich and fulfilling, often ponified, lives. We never hear about the cloppers, the shut-ins, the ones who are still in the closet (or stable, to use brony vernacular), or the ones struggling with the fact that they like the show. I am not claiming these people to be a majority of the community, but they're certainly bronies, and they certainly deserve to be heard... just not from this guy, and not like this.

I then scrolled down to the comments section, despite my better judgments. Of course, there is a giant flame war that still continues at this very second, averaging one new comment or reply every thirty seconds, with up to 7,716 comments at the time of my writing this. Most of them are likely trolls meant to piss off bronies while others seem genuinely hateful toward bronies for liking a show "meant for little girls" and immediately condemning them all as disgusting, sometimes buying into the misconception that they all do in fact masturbate to pony porn.

My problem lies not with the haters, although they are at best annoying and at worst represent, although not as harsh or inflammatory in language, the general sentiment of the public that misunderstands bronies. No, my problem lies with the bronies, the community to which I belong and am resentful toward due to its current attitudes. Take, for instance, a sample of many comments like these, decidedly made by bronies (based on their viewing activity and video playlists) in defense of their precious community:

"clopping bronies aren't really what i want to call a true brony. they're more over furries because they're in it for the fact of sexual content. I'm ashamed to call myself a brony because I'm now just identified as nothing but a perv and pedo by anyone who isn't a good friend of mine from before. Rule 34 has f*&^ed up. this is the one thing I was praying be sacred and stay innocent with it's jokes about alcohol and mental breakdowns. It was meant to be clean comedy now the internet made it dirty."

"O god This is why i hate cloppers they make the whole fandom look bad. god really why you have to be so nasty cloppers why?"

"So what if we enjoy a show marketed for little girls? SO WHAT?! Not all of us are cloppers, some of us enjoy the show for the sake of enjoying it. Haters shouldn't assume we're all sexual deviants because we're not. We like the show because it's fun. Haters shouldn't judge us if they haven't seen the show either. If they don't like the show that's fine, whatever tickles your fancy."

"Cloppers are not true bronies."

To the last comment, I responded: "Do you think gay people are not true humans? It is somewhat ironic that a community that suffers tremendous stigma affords the same to people within its community with alternative sexual preferences. Then again, it makes sense, because we're trying to seem as normal as possible, right?'"

To which he responded: "cloppers are disgusting and perverted, and discriminating against someone who is perverted is not a bad thing."

Both sides of the flame war are wrong. On one side, you have anti-bronies calling us all disgusting and awful for being cloppers and indulging in Rule 34 (If it exists, there is porn of it. In this case, My Little Pony porn). On the other side, we have bronies saying the cloppers are a small minority and don't represent us, and they're the "evil" part of the fandom that the actual fandom shuns rightfully. I believe everyone has a right to watch what they want AND masturbate to what they want. It is unfortunate that both the anti-bronies AND bronies continue to be Puritan and sex-negative.

Clopping should be defended. I assure you that I am not a clopper, nor do I enjoy simulated pornography of any kind, but I do have alternative (or in more non-PC language, deviant) sexual interests and can empathize with those who do clop. With respect to that, I cannot see anything inherently or morally wrong with masturbating to fan-drawn pictures of ponies in the privacy of one's own home. The same goes with most Rule 34. It has the knee-jerk reaction of being disgusting and off-color, but that is all. It harms no one. Obviously, bronies are already having a hard time defending their love for the show without that additional stigma, but in my opinion, we are only going making ourselves to be less tolerant and more elitist by denying that part of the fandom. To that end, I think that the community could do more in terms of accepting the "darker" side of the fandom or at least being more open to hearing them out rather than hearing the word "clop" and running for the hills or completely shutting a person out as being "not one of us."

However, in the middle of the entire flame war, there is some hope within the brony community:

"The ONLY thing I like about this video is the honesty and the courage of the Bronies answering all of these ridiculous questions. It's not a question of Bronies being naive to interviews, I think its a statement that through love and tolerance we're not afraid to talk to one another about sexuality or unemployment or depression. We've built an amazing community that accepts each of us for who we are. This is powerful, and awesome, and this why the creators of the show support us. /)"

"They [Cloppers] are bronies, despite what you might think.
This shouldn't be such a controversy, rule 34 of MLP is to bronies like what hentai is to anime fans.
people are going to be into it, one way or another, it shouldn't be of anyone else's concern."

"Well it shouldn't matter what it is, as long as no one else is being harmed, and no one is being harmed when people look at pony pictures. Even with pedophile, as long as they aren't harming actual children I don't see a problem in letting a pedophile think and look at whatever he wants in his free time, assuming no one else is being affected."

I wish more people shared their sentiments. Pedophiles have an unfortunate aspect of their sexuality to deal with, and I have the utmost sympathy for them in terms of being misunderstood as all being child molesters and monsters. With regard to cloppers, there is not even the potential for harm. People just have the knee-jerk reaction of it being "wrong" or "disgusting" with no actual reasoning to back up its supposed immorality. In contrast, I do think that beastiality and actual "horsef***ing," which haters have lodged as insults toward us, are reaching the unethical territory simply by merit of the fact that animals cannot consent to sexual acts of any kind, at least not at the level that we can as humans.

Despite these few gems in the rough, I doubt their attitudes will carry through to the average brony looking for acceptance and normalcy in something that we all know is not normal but try to pin onto it all sorts of reasons as to why we like the show, like the excellent writing, characters, and animation. They may be legitimate reasons, but lots of shows have these same characteristics, and lots of people like these characteristics in the shows they watch. What distinguishes the average man who would choose to turn away from this show as opposed to a brony who would choose to embrace it? Stigma because it's a "girl's show?" The storylines? The color scheme? The innocent messages about friendship and love? All of the above? Even if it's mostly the first, why do we bronies choose to defy the stigma and watch and enjoy the show anyway? I will discuss my thoughts and possible theories as to why we enjoy the show in another post, but for now, I'm done ranting. On this subject, I find this post by the .MOV series creator himself to be particularly illuminating.

Good night.

25 comments:

  1. "Even with pedophile, as long as they aren't harming actual children I don't see a problem in letting a pedophile think and look at whatever he wants in his free time, assuming no one else is being affected."

    I hope when you mean 'look at whatever he wants', you don't mean child pornography or videos of child sex abuse. Because even though a physical child is not in front of them, there is still a victim involved in such videos.

    *effect

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    1. Actually, countries like Canada even classify underage sex drawings as child pornography. Also, the age of consent varies and changes, so perfectly legitimate porn can be classified child pornography depending on time and location.

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  2. Thanks for the comment.

    First of all, those aren't my words; I merely quoted someone else to illustrate that not all bronies shared a negative view on cloppers. I would have chosen my words just a little more carefully, although I agree with the general point. However, the types of images and/or videos to which you refer involve harm to children, and so I do see a problem in perpetuating the demand for such media by looking at them. I wouldn't see a problem with images and/or videos that don't involve any harm to children (e.g., simulated pornography). I think the person I quoted would feel the same.

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    1. what exactly is simulated pornography involving children?

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    2. He didn't say that, but i guess it would be like simulated murder involving children, i.e. playing soldier.

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    3. There is drawn pornography involving anime characters that look basically like children even when they are said to be 18 or older. I had that in mind when I said that.

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  3. ""Cloppers are not true bronies."

    To the last comment, I responded: "Do you think gay people are not true humans?"


    In all honesty that depends. If you believe that being gay is a choice then the answer to the question would be YES. Gay people aren't true "humans" because they made a conscious choice to be homosexual when they know it isn't the best choice to make.

    If you are one to believe that being gay is something that happens when you are born and that it isn't a choice then you can't make that argument. That is like saying " a person born blind is no longer human" or whatever condition a person is born with.


    "It is unfortunate that both the anti-bronies AND bronies continue to be Puritan and sex-negative."

    Sex negative? it isn't a matter of being "sex negitve" it is a matter of "cloppers" jerking it to a show that wasn't even meant for sex. If MLP was a sex show you would be right, but cloppers have no right to bring an element of perversion to a show that isn't about sex in the slightest.


    "Clopping should be defended......"

    Clopping should be defended? The act of jerking it to a LITTLE KIDS SHOW should be defended? I am sorry, but WHAT!?!?!?


    "With respect to that, I cannot see anything inherently or morally wrong with masturbating to fan-drawn pictures of ponies in the privacy of one's own home. The same goes with most Rule 34. It has the knee-jerk reaction of being disgusting and off-color, but that is all. It harms no one."

    You are right there. There isn't anything wrong with jerking it to fan art of ponies in the privacy of one's own home, but you aren't looking at the big picture. You are only looking at the little picture. It isn't just about cloppers jerking it to kids shows in their own home. It is also about the people that make said art. If you have seen any clop art or been on some rule 34 clop art site you will notice there is even a few sides to the cloppers themselves. There are cloppers that prefer anthro, there are cloppers that prefer horse, then there are cloppers that prefer "REAL" horse. By that I mean the ponies being anatomically correct with teats/udders or "crotch boobs" and a realistic horse looking vagina or penis. This is why cloppers are seen as disgusting freaks and why most bronies don't want to consider them "real bronies". Because not all cloppers are just jerking it to Rainbow dash with a human body. There are a lot of cloppers that want rainbow dash to be as real of a horse as possible. When you see these cloppers even though you can argue "well it is still based on an imaginary character" the fact is they still want this character to look like a real animal and that is when we start heading into the area of bestiality. Realistically the cloppers that prefer rainbow dash or whatever pony to still be a pony but have a human vagina and no "teats" are still on the edge of bestiality.

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    1. "In all honesty that depends..."

      It doesn't depend. Whether or not being gay is a choice should have no bearing on whether we consider that person a human. Sexuality has nothing to do with whether you're a member of Homo sapiens anymore than it does with whether you're a member of the brony community. That was the point I was trying to make, and I don't think I did it that well with the gay-human analogy, but that's what I meant. Also, your logic about gay people not being "true" humans if they chose that is flawed; if anything, that makes them more human because they have conscious decision-making and free will, things that we consider make us humans and not other kinds of animals. And if it's not the best choice to make, neither is smoking, having kids when you're a teenager and can't properly care for them, getting too drunk and having sex with someone you didn't want to have sex with, etc. Are we going to say those people aren't "true" humans too?

      "Sex negative? it isn't a matter of being "sex negitve" it is a matter of "cloppers" jerking it to a show that wasn't even meant for sex. If MLP was a sex show you would be right, but cloppers have no right to bring an element of perversion to a show that isn't about sex in the slightest."

      That's called being sex-negative. Somehow, MLP should be protected because it wasn't a show meant for sex (and in fact, it's a children's show). Your reaction is a perfect example of our society's knee-jerk reaction of immediate disgust to clopping without really thinking about the issue. Because of clopping, are the show-writers putting Rule 34 in the show? Is it so pervasive that even if you weren't specifically looking for clopping-related pictures on Google, they'd show up and possibly "traumatize" a young child just wanting to see pictures of Fluttershy? The answers are no and no, and if there are no other ways in which cloppers are harming anyone, then this is an instance of unjustified outrage fueled by sex-negativity.

      "Clopping should be defended? The act of jerking it to a LITTLE KIDS SHOW should be defended? I am sorry, but WHAT!?!?!?"

      Again, see above. They aren't harming anyone, and so there's no reason they should be attacked. So yes, they should be defended because they're doing nothing morally wrong even if you have some knee-jerk reaction of disgust because yes, it's obviously weird and deviant. People reacted this way to homosexuality for a long, long time.

      "There isn't anything wrong with jerking it to fan art of ponies in the privacy of one's own home, but you aren't looking at the big picture. You are only looking at the little picture. It isn't just about cloppers jerking it to kids shows in their own home. It is also about the people that make said art."

      I'm glad you agree. But you sort of enter into this argument about how cloppers draw art of the characters with almost realistic horse features, and that is why they are disgusting and are shunned from being bronies, because this is veering into bestiality. I disagree. I think the bronies are most up in arms about the cloppers drawing Rule 34 of their characters in any form, anthro or more anatomically correct. And I stand by my argument that as long as it's drawn and is not harming any real animals or any real people, there's nothing wrong with it. I think you're close to understanding this because you say "well it's still based on an imaginary character." Unless you have evidence that drawing them realistically leads them to have sex with animals, there's no harm involved, and it's really just zoophilia not bestiality (which is actual sex with animals).







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  4. PART 2

    "....With regard to cloppers, there is not even the potential for harm. People just have the knee-jerk reaction of it being "wrong" or "disgusting" with no actual reasoning to back up its supposed immorality. In contrast, I do think that beastiality and actual "horsef***ing," which haters have lodged as insults toward us, are reaching the unethical territory simply by merit of the fact that animals cannot consent to sexual acts of any kind, at least not at the level that we can as humans."


    Actually you are sort of wrong here. Take the infamous serial murder rapist Bundy. If I remember correctly he started out by just looking at porn. The thing with jacking it is that people do it for a sexual high. The release is the side effects of the drug, but like with all drugs the side effect of immense pleasure starts to dull over time as you get "immune" or use to it. It took Bundy a while before that happened to him. When it did happen he went from just jacking it to pictures or videos to having sex. When that stopping giving him the pleasure he wanted he went to rape. When that stopped he went to murder rape. He kept getting progressively worse because he kept seeking out that feeling of a extreme orgasm until he was finally stopped.
    I am not saying this is the end result of all cloppers, but it can be. One day someone might get tired of just jerkin it to (insert pony/ies here) and they might get curious about real horses. They might start off on videos and then move to becoming an actual horse lover. When it comes to animals a person is pretty much free to do whatever he/she wants to. I can go out right now buy a dog, take it to the mountains, shoot it in the head, and walk away as if nothing ever happened. I will never have to fear a police investigation even if the dogs body is found. This can be the eventual outcome of some cloppers which is another reason to look down on them because as I have mentioned before some do prefer their ponies to be as horse as possible.

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    1. I didn't see this when I wrote my last reply. So you do believe clopping leads to some actual real-life moral consequences. I don't claim to know Bundy's sexual trajectory, but I do know that we have good evidence that serial killers who kill for sexual purposes (sexual sadists) are born, not made. We know this because they often have enduring personality traits such as lack of empathy and hostile attitude from a very early age (before even looking at any kind of porn). Also, almost all men look at porn and jack off, and they don't find such a diminishing effect over time that they have to go out and rape. If your theory were true, all men would be out raping, not just a very select few - obviously, something else is gone wrong in the electrical wiring of their brain, and like I just said, it is probably something they were born with.

      To translate that into the clopping issue, I don't think people who were going to have sex with actual horses will do so because of clopping too much. I very much think if they were going to do that, they were going to do it with or without the existence of MLP Rule 34. Unless we have good evidence that looking at MLP Rule 34 and clopping directly leads to actual horse f****ing, we have no reason to stigmatize them (and you don't have a good reason). Not only that, but I'd go further and say even if it led only a select few cloppers to f*** horses, that's not a good enough reason to stigmatize the group as a whole who isn't harming anyone or anything. Like you said, people can do whatever they want with animals, and I bet there are plenty of people abusing their animals, having sex with them, even killing them who are not cloppers. I sincerely doubt knowing whether someone is a clopper or not is going to stop many if any of these people, which is a sad truth.

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    2. To add to my last sentence, saying we can identify actual horse f**kers by knowing they're a clopper is like saying we can identify terrorists by knowing they're Muslim. I would argue the odds are even lower of predicting horse f**king from clopping, because at least we know with statistics of the relation between Muslim ideology and terrorism (and of course, it's not very large because most Muslims are not terrorists, and so there is no justification for racial profiling using only this criterion)

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  5. I couldn't even finish this tripe. The problem is that My Little Pony is intended for children. I could give a fuck if you sexualize cartoon animals. I do give a fuck when you sexualize cartoon animals from a known franchise marketed and geared towards children. Why in the world would an adult feel turned on by a completely non-sexual show aimed and marketed at children? Are you grooming your next victim? Do you like sexualizing media children are likely to see? Do you like sexualizing children? Do you like raping children? Seems likely based on the nonsense you are promoting and condoning.

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    1. First of all, if you didn't even finish reading my argument, how do you expect to make one of your own? Second, if you had read my whole argument, you would have known that it extended to defend pedophilia as something that is not inherently immoral or wrong, but rather just unfortunate and something that shouldn't be acted on. I won't even begin to tackle the fact that you're just assuming people who sexualize CHARACTERS from a children's show are the same people who sexualize children. That's not how attraction works. By that logic, men who look at Sports Illustrated or lesbian porn and sexualize the female models are attracted to other men, because Sports Illustrated and lesbian porn are marketed and geared toward men. Also, people who sexualize children (who we have no reason to believe are the people who sexualize My Little Pony characters) are not necessarily the people who groom and rape children. You're giving the exact knee-jerk, disgust response I kept seeing over and over that made me want to write this post 2 years ago. You're not thinking clearly about this; you're just spreading panic. If you can find good, solid evidence that watching My Little Pony porn leads people to rape children, then we'll talk.

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    2. Pokemon has been sexualized and is a kids show with a known franchise. That made your opinion invaliad.

      Do you want to ask the same question to the corperation?

      Kids show has been sexualized ever since porn takes the media. Honestly it is really depressing to see comments that has little to no proof.

      It's really sad that women and girls who aren't a brony/pegasister, considered girls show as much like the mem and boys would typically say any steriotype words on the book (metephorically).

      They cannot expect to make peace without breaking the steriotypical wall barier.

      Now i just made my rant. I know that most wouldn't know on what i mean. But i can't argue about wishing the innocence of the show to be back again.

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  6. Facepalm... I am the best EVEN IF I CLOP! (on like, EVERYTHING)

    Autor: The-most-psychopatic-pony....EVER

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  7. I read the whole thing and as much as I'd like to see your side of this problem, I just can't. I just can't see how sexualizing animals is okay. Same goes with pedophilia. Even if they aren't harming anyone, it's not something you'd want, which is insinuated by the words you used to describe them. You kept making it seem like we should feel bad for those people and in that case, why should we be okay with cloppers?
    I read through these comments and I understand where you see that knee-jerk reaction but I can't see anything good coming out of loving the anatomical form of a pony. I don't mind the R34 of human ponies. They're human. But there's really not something right if you prefer a pony vagina or penis than a human vagina or penis. I won't disagree that it may be due to society beating these ideas into my head but I dunno. I miss My Little Pony being innocent. I don't mind the penis joke every once in awhile but the internet really does make things way more dirty than necessary, and it's all it becomes. I mean, can't you agree that because of the sexualization, that's all people see? I don't think we should necessarily be attacking them, I just don't think we should be defending them because it's not right, the same way pedophilia isn't.
    I don't want to seem like I'm attacking you, btw. I'm open for discussion. I'd like to see things in a better light if there's something I don't know that I should. Feel free to enlighten me as you see fit.

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    1. Thanks for your very thoughtful comment. I appreciate that you took the time to think about the issues at hand and make an argument only after careful consideration. I don't feel as if you're attacking me at all, but rather, that you would like to understand my arguments better, which is a great way to enter a discussion and a nice change from what I'm used to on the Internet. So thanks for that!
      To clarify, I don't think sexualizing animals, having zoophilia, or having pedophilia is something we want. In fact, if we could eliminate such desires in a way that was ethical, I think the vast majority of people, myself as well as many of the people who have those desires included, would strive to achieve that. Keep in mind that many of these people feel ashamed and stigmatized, and many would rather not have those desires. So it's not a matter of whether we want pedophilia, zoophilia, or the desire to sexualize animals and MLP, but how we treat those who have those desires who really can't help it and don't act on them in a way that is harmful.
      And yes, I do think we should feel bad for them, for reasons I stated above. They're misunderstood. People are quick to demonize them in unfair ways (for example, I've seen people call cloppers the equivalent of child rapists merely for jerking off in their own homes to fictionalized drawn ponies from a show). They are highly stigmatized, and because of that, many commit suicide or don't seek out the help they need, instead living out in shame (this applies mostly to pedophiles and zoophiles and not so much cloppers, although I entertain possible overlap; I don't think cloppers need any help beyond working with their own feelings of shame, since they can't act on their desires in any harmful way because cartoon ponies don't actually exist). So yes, we should sympathize, not demonize, these people. The defending them part is primarily about cloppers in particular, because as I've said in the original post and perhaps elsewhere, in no way can their desires be harmful. I think if they clopped in front of children or posted R34 on sites that are easily accessible to children, there could be grounds for harm, but that has nothing to do with clopping anymore, and I don't think those acts define most cloppers and have never heard of those things happening (definitely not the first). In fact, unlike what you said, I think the MLP fandom has almost entirely maintained its innocence in the public eye (no documentary or news story has even touched this); you have to dig at least a little bit if you want to find dirty things. Maybe in online gaming and on imageboards you'll find MLP sexualized more than on Equestria Daily or YouTube, but that has less to do with clopping than it does griefing.
      Anyway, I hope you see where I'm coming from. I defend cloppers because 1) what defines them carries no chance of harm whatsoever (I would have a different argument for pedophiles) and 2) they are unfairly demonized and ostracized, and I think that draws them further into a dark corner; many would likely benefit from not feeling ashamed or put down.

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    3. Edit: I noticed some dumb mistakes and just wanted to fix those.

      I'm glad you weren't offended by what I said. I don't see the point in arguing for the sake of arguing, it gets nobody anywhere. So, I appreciate that. C:
      With that being said, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I do think we should sympathize with those who have these desires because it's not exactly the desire you'd choose if you had the option. Also, now that you actually mention the innocence of MLP, I realize the problem in my own argument. I remember all I could think about was Howard Stern bashing the bejesus out of MLP because of the cloppers. At that point, I used a logical fallacy by generalizing everyone as hating MLP because of what Howard Stern pointed out. You helped me realize that the problem does not lie within the clopper community, but rather the inability of society to accept something different. I thank you for that because I could not sympathize with cloppers before and seeing them as big bad demons is no longer! This will help me with some people I know who happen to be cloppers. I imagine I should probably get back in touch with those people. Thank you very much for helping me understand. C:

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    4. They DO have the option, you moron. Same as homosexuals.

      Illogical Homosexual Argument #1: Segregation
      Homosexuals and supporters of homosexuality attempt to argue that homosexuals did not and would not choose to be marginalized, ostracized, ridiculed, and "hated" by society. That is the exact argument they attempt to stump people with. Inadvertently, yes, you did choose to be marginalized, ostracized, and ridiculed by society, in the exact same way that a pedophile, rapist, murderer, etc., chose to be marginalized, ostracized, and ridiculed by society, because you chose to revel in your sin. Are you going to attempt to argue that pedophiles, rapists, and murderers are born that way and cannot help themselves? That they cannot change or choose otherwise? The same illogical argument must be applied to them as well. Did pedophiles, rapists, and murderers choose to be marginalized, ostracized, and ridiculed by society? Inadvertently, yes. Sorry, but homosexuality is not innate nor is it immutable. It is a choice, as hundreds of ex-homosexuals who have repented and come to Christ will testify to.

      Illogical Homosexual Argument #13: Unwanted Homosexuality
      Homosexuals and supporters of homosexuality attempt to argue that homosexuals "didn't want/choose to be gay." Sorry, but, yes, you did. You were not born that way, and God certainly did not create you that way. Let us examine the logic here. If you were born gay, that means that you have been dealt the worst hand possible in the universe. If God created you to be gay, that means He played the cruelest trick in the universe on you. Why? Two reasons: (1) If you were born gay, if God created you to be gay, you were born with a deliberately shorter life expectancy, having an imminent death sentence hanging over you. If you engage in homosexual behaviour, you are pretty much guaranteed to become diseased by contracting AIDS, the average homosexual having a life expectancy of less than half of that of the average heterosexual. (2) If you were born gay, if God created you to be gay, you were born without a possible future, having nothing to look forward to or hope in. Since you cannot reproduce, your family line ends with you. There will be no one to carry on your name or your legacy. If you did not want to be gay or choose to be gay, then you should not be embracing it and practicing it, you should be angry that you are not going to live as long as the average heterosexual or see yourself in the face and life of another being created in your image. The fact is, you did choose to be gay, and those rewards are still yours: shorter life expectancy and the end of your family line as you know it. By saying that you "didn't want/choose to be gay," you are admitting that you have a choice, because if you never wanted to be gay, guess what, you do not have to be!

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  8. R34 haters are the reason an MLP spinoff that is rated PG-13 was never made.

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  9. In hindsight. R34 will make pony porn when people like it or not. Yes i did read your "Rant" and kindness can take you so far......

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  10. You are a seriously fucked up individual if you think people doing this are fine. There is nothing "legitimate" about it. I suppose you think zoophiliacs are "legitmate," too, and that they should be allowed to live full and healthy lives fucking the animal of their choice. You're as screwed up in the head as they are. It's no wonder you think homosexuality is fine. I suggest you educate yourself to the fact of homosexuality: http://irrefutable-reality.blogspot.com

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  11. Pedophilia IS inherently immoral AND wrong. As is homosexuality. These are the results of having strong and/or frequent thoughts and/or temptations of such things and giving in to them rather than resisting them, and then thinking they define you or determine who or what you are. They are sexual deviancies and they mental health issues. You're just as mental as they are if you think there's nothing wrong with them. More so if you defend them, because obviously you suffer from some sort of mental health issue, too. Your ridiculous arguments would have to logically be applied to everything else, too, including murderers, rapists, liars, thieves, wife-beaters, etc., etc., etc., etc. If there's nothing inherently immoral or wrong about these things, let me go to your child's school, mutilate your child, blow the school up, and see the tune you'd be singing then. Your arguments are hypocritical and false. As soon as it would hit home for you, you'd be singing a different tune. If I filmed child porn of your child or sexually abused your child, you'd be crying out for blood. You wouldn't be arguing it's legitimate or has nothing inherently immoral or wrong about it. You're lying to and deceiving yourself because you're confused as to morality, reality, and truth. Likely because of your own mental issues, you're willing to overlook other people's mental issues as a means of relieving yourself from your own; if you side with their immorality than your own immorality won't be so bad. Wake up and come back to reality!

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